Ermoon - No Charge Overrun?

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Jan 7, 2010, 8:01am

Ermoon :: The World of Ermoon :: House Rules :: No Charge Overrun?

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Topic: No Charge Overrun? (Read 69 times)

Jeff_Fountain
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No Charge Overrun?
« Thread Started on Sept 23, 2002, 10:44pm »

The Karpuckers ran into what seems like a hole in the movement & position combat rules in our last session. I'd like to get some feedback on what an appropriate patch might be.

This was the situation: when affected by the fear effect of a Cornugon devil, the party's half-orc barbarian failed his save and took-off running (actually he couldn't go in a straight line so he was double moving) down the 5 ft. corridor the party had just come from. The party's gnome illusionist occupied a bend in the corridor about 15 ft. from the entrance to the room. Thinking quickly (and desperately) the gnome attempted to interpose - not wanting the half-orc to run by him.

We struggled a bit with how to handle this, it was the half-orc's turn and the gnome didn't have an action readied so he couldn't act per say, but he could still be a obstacle as a "blocking defender" obstructs movement through the space he occupies except in cases of three or more levels of descrepancy in size and for tiny and smaller creatures. The only rules I know of that allow movement through a space so occupied are tumbling and overrun. A bull-rush normally could push him back but since he was in a corner, it couldn't push him out of the way.

Now, the half-orc would have a chance (albeit a poor one) to tumble past the gnome but this hardly seemed natural. First of all, the half-orc is in an out-of-control state of fear, would he really possess the where-with-all to use his little-used tumble skill in this state? When you also consider the fact that he would not have anticipated the gnome's attempt to block him and the absurdity of thinking that a creature 1/4 his size even could block him, this option seems unreasonable.

That left overrun, but overrun is done as part of a charge action, which involves an attack and movement in a straight line. Neither requirements were satisfied by the half-orc. Even if he backed-up 10 ft. to charge next round, the half-orc would still have to stop in the gnome's space since that space was a corner, and you can't charge through corners.

Obviously the frightened half-orc should have a pretty good chance of overrunning the desperate gnome but if we strictly abide by the rules, the gnome has him effectively checked by virtue of his position.

What call would you make? Would you allow the half-orc to overrun even though he's not charging? Would you make the half-orc attack his own party member until he could get by him? Would you say their's nothing wrong with the rules and gnomes should be able to stymie frantic half-orcs when positioned in narrow corners? Is there an appropriate rule on the books that I'm overlooking? Do you have any suggestions for a new house rule covering such predicaments?

Along these lines, has anyone had success getting responses back on rules questions posed to WotC? If so, can you recommend a point of contact?

Thanks for your help!

« Last Edit: Sept 23, 2002, 10:46pm by Jeff_Fountain »

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knastymike
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #1 on Sept 23, 2002, 10:57pm »

Well, I haven't done much research on this, but what about grapple? If the half-orc could engage the gnome in a grapple and win an opposed grapple check, he could get around him. Just a thought. Something to either expand upon or discard. : )

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Jeff_Fountain
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #2 on Sept 23, 2002, 11:06pm »

To be more specific, I beleive the fear effect left the half-orc in a "panicked" state per the DMG which states that a panicked creature flees any dangers that confront him and if unable to flee, cowers. It does shed light on the use of abilities in fleeing also saying that a panicked creature can even cast a spell in order to get away. I guess that means he could use his tumble well enough.

In the lesser state of "frightened", the DMG says that a creature unable to flee may fight. That, to me, would open up the grapple bag.

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Nakia
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #3 on Sept 24, 2002, 7:43am »

Well, given the rules and description of the panicked state, I would let the half orc make a tumble check, which would translate to him trying to leap over the little gnome who is interposed. Aother alternative would be to have the half orc move to confront the gnome, then role some grapple checks, noting that this is not a "grapple" action per se, but merely an attempt by the half orc to untangle himself from the gnome (whom he plowed into at full speed). If the half orc wins, he can move away at his next turn.

Our group here called the WotC help line one night (number is in small print on the title or credits page of the PHB), in the middle of the game, over a rules question having to do with AoO. A party member's life was in the balance. A very nice guy named Alex helped us out and saved the party member. Of course, all those people may be laid off now, since Hasbro let so many people go. Another great place for rules questions is the ENWorld message boards. Go to www.enworld.org, then click on the messageboards link. They have a rules forum.

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Jeff_Fountain
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #4 on Sept 24, 2002, 8:48pm »

Thanks for the tip Nakia. I think it's hilarious you guys called WotC in the middle of a game for a rule clarification.

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Nakia
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #5 on Sept 25, 2002, 7:44am »

Quote:

I think it's hilarious you guys called WotC in the middle of a game for a rule clarification.

So did they. I think Alex's exact words were "You guys are playing RIGHT NOW?!"

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DM_MikeHammock
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Re: No Charge Overrun?
« Reply #6 on Sept 25, 2002, 9:42am »

Personally, I love the idea of RPG tech support. We had a moment a couple of sessions ago when we could have used some help. We couldn't figure out the brawling rules. I think that the explanation in the PHB is seriously confusing.

If we had only called tech support, the whole combat would have gone much better.

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